Boyd Rice Interview
from Primal Chaos
by Vadge Moore (of The Dwarves / Chthonic Force)

One of the great things about being me (and there are many) is that I have always had the opportunity to meet the people (that are alive, of course) that I truly admire. Writers, musicians, movie stars philosophers- you name it. Some times I'm disappointed some times impressed. I met Boyd Rice about five years ago. I've admired him since I was a kid. I first read about him in Research's Industrial Culture Handbook and Pranks. I would read his interviews in those books over and over again. He was witty, funny and also a little dangerous. With his band Non he was one of the very first noise- music pioneers. This was way before Merzbow or Massona. Since the beginning Boyd has been surrounded by controversy. He has been the friend of Charles Manson, Church of Satan founder Anton LaVey, and the late, great Tiny Tim. His name has been associated with Fascism, Satanism, and serial murder. He has always promoted a philosophy of elitism, power, and violence. He also has an amazing collection of Barbie Dolls and a great love of sappy, sixties girl groups. Boyd Rice is a walking contradiction. Much like his favorite Gnostic God Abraxas, Boyd combines elements of dark and light, good and evil. As you can well imagine I was a little nervous upon first meeting him. Now, some five years later I consider Boyd Rice to be a good friend and easily one of the nicest people I have ever met. He's also one of the most prolific people I have ever met. He writes for Seconds Magazine, Dagobert's Revenge and Panik. He's still putting out amazing, brain exploding music as Non and he can be seen starring in the movie Pearls Before Swine. He was also kind enough to appear on my first noise album-Chthonic Force. He has his own record company- Hierarchy- and in the year 2000 he shows no signs of slowing down. This interview is only a small segment. When Boyd gets to talking time flies by and you hardly even notice.

VADGE: Not only are you a recording artist and a movie star and a writer, of course, you are also descended from royalty!

BOYD: Yeah. Several years back I went back to the ancestral home of the Rice's and this family genealogist gave me stacks of material that said that the Rice's can claim descent from the Plantagenets of England. And you can trace them to every Royal House in Europe, virtually. The King of the Swedes, Egill The Wicked, the King of the Normans, Rollo and tons of people. I was just in Germany a while back and went to Heinrich the Fowler's tomb, which Heinrich Himmler thought that he was the reincarnation of. He was the first Saxon King and there are family connections that were descendants of Heinrich the Fowler even though I'm not directly connected to him. These people all inner-married with everybody for centuries and centuries to keep this Royal Blood intact. So if you're related to one of these people, you're related to virtually everybody.

VADGE: And you're a direct descendant of the Merovingian family?

BOYD: The Merovingian Dynasty. Yeah. That goes back to King Dagobert the Second and Parsival and Lohengrin and before that to the Grail family.

VADGE: And there's an even more important connection. Isn't there?

BOYD: What? Godfroi de Bouillon?

VADGE: No. I'm thinking of a certain figure who has kind of changed history for the last two thousand years.

BOYD: Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. (Laughter) Yeah, Jesus Christ. The story is that Christ was of direct Davidic descent. He came from King David, King Solomon, and didn't die on the cross. Then he came to France with Mary Magdalene or if he did die on the cross she came across pregnant with his child. She came with his brother and some other people. And from those people came all of the royal families of France, and Germany and the Visigoths and Franks.

VADGE: So, what you're saying is that Christ was not celibate.

BOYD: No. I mean'Christ was a Rabbi and Rabbi's are kind of bound by law to have children. As a matter of fact; somebody at the age of thirty-three he could of had a number of children by that time.

So that bloodline is carried on. Which brings me to the Dagobert's Revenge people whose web site turned me on to the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" that relates this whole story. This is a very elite, royal group that has been trying to carry on it's tradition and it's blood for centuries and centuries now.

BOYD: Yeah.

VADGE: So Boyd Rice is basically a direct descendant of Jesus Christ?!

Yeah. And I don't think anybody really understood his philosophy. It's been misinterpreted for two thousand years and I think I'm here to set the record straight.

VADGE: That's a big load to take on.

BOYD: Not at all. It's just a simple misunderstanding. But I've always felt, from the time I was a child, some sense of destiny. I felt like I had something to do and I didn't quite know what it was.

VADGE: What you've said for so many years and what you have been obsessed with for so many years is the blood and listening to the blood. So that's why this completely makes sense.

BOYD: It totally makes sense because there are things that I have known since I was a child that I have never been taught. And only as I've grown older have I found external sources that confirm what I have always felt all along. My basic philosophy, I have never gotten it from anybody else. Now that I'm older and a bit more well read I find out that this is some perennial secret doctrine that's been passed down through mythology and symbolism and that sort of thing.

VADGE: So Jesus Christ was basically a Gnostic.

BOYD: I totally believe he was. If you read the Gospel of Thomas; it's a Gnostic Gospel. Much of Christianity is thoroughly Gnostic but it's the Orthodox Gnosticism that light and dark are, or spirit and matter are sort of in eternal battle with one another. The more Hermetic Gnosticism thinks that those two are different aspects of the same thing. They are basically one. All the worlds' philosophies posit that all is one. That's what the Seal of Solomon represents, the Yin and Yang. All of Man's major religious symbols go back to this.

VADGE: Abraxas, of course. (A Gnostic God that combines good and evil, Jesus and Satan)

BOYD: Abraxas, yeah. It seems perfectly poetic to me that I'm a Satanist but I have the blood of Christ in my veins. It seems to me the perfect poetic metaphor for Abraxas.

VADGE: There is this long tradition, this esoteric philosophy, There's always the exoteric philosophy that the masses are fed but there are only a few masters that really understand the true Gnosis. It seems that that is how it's always been.

BOYD: There's a phrase ''only for the initiated!" If you look at Royal Symbolism through the ages there are very specific symbols in there that the Initiates look at and they know what they mean right away. Do you know where the term "SUB ROSA" comes from?


The Tudor Rose was this five petalled rose, which was used in a lot of Kingly Heraldry, and it's actually the symbol for the Pentagram. The term "SUB ROSA" comes from 'Beneath the Rose'. So the Rose is the exoteric symbol and the esoteric symbol is the Pentagram. And that's a symbol that's associated with Mary Magdalene. Like we were talking about yesterday with the Jean Cocteau movie; Beauty and the Beast. Beauty only wants a rose and the guy takes it from the garden of the Beast. That's what that is all about.

VADGE: And the Bible itself is filled with all kinds of symbology.

BOYD: Tons of symbology. But I think a lot of people agree that Christ's disciple's' people like Peter and Paul they never quite understood what he was on about. Some of his true disciples like Mary Magdalene or John'. Eliphas Levi says that John was the only true Gnostic among Christ's followers and he got the real deal. Supposedly in the Vatican there are Gnostic versions of the Lord's Prayer that have never been translated that would throw an entirely different light on what Christianity started out as being. The Gospel of Thomas, as well, is almost identical to the Emerald Tablet of Hermes. There are these missing years in Christ's life where he disappears for twelve years and then he reappears on the scene and a lot of people seem to think that he was in Alexandria and Egypt studying the old esoteric Hermetic Doctrines.

VADGE: A lot of that doctrine can be traced back to the Egyptian God Thoth. So that would totally make sense.

BOYD: Lawrence Gardner in the book "The Blood Line of the Holy Grail" he says that Thoth and Hermes were the same person.

VADGE: Something I never really thought of that I've heard you bring up is that these Gods were at one time real people.

BOYD: Yeah. That's what I feel. A lot of people studying ancient mythology think that. A guy named Waddel wrote a book about the history of the Aryan Races and he traces them back to Persia and claims that there were really human beings who were Odin and Thor.

VADGE: That could be considered a blood line or a Blood Royal right there.

BOYD: When you get into this you find that all of this stuff is highly interconnected. Like Vlad the Impaler. I've always been into Dracula and that sort of thing and evidently on the coat of arms of Vlad the Impaler there's a Dragon biting it's tail. There's an organization that still exists called the Dragon Court and they come from people like Vlad the Impaler. The Dragon thing goes back to Ancient Egypt where the Kings were anointed with crocodile fat and crocodile's were seen to be dragons. That's where the dragon imagery came from.

VADGE: And that represents the cycle of time and life and death and what not.

The Uroboros. I just saw a documentary about Joseph Campbell and he was saying that these old graves and religious sites were discovered where the Bear was a religious symbol. They had a Bear skull and they would place in it's jaw the bones of it's leg. That represented to the Ancients the same thing as the Uroboros; life devouring itself. Because all life feeds off of other life

VADGE: It has many multi-layered meanings as well like the symbol of time and life and death '

BOYD: And all is One.

VADGE: I've been studying the serpent and the mythology of the serpent a lot lately because of Chthonic Force. There's this mythology behind what Chthonic is. It's the serpent that is the primordial part of our psyche that starts in the sewer and rises to the God. As above, so below. Dark and light. Flesh and spirit.

BOYD: Yeah. And the music can create visions for that sort of thing. I think that records like The Black Album my first record dredged up all of these ancestral memories or something cause I could see very specific locales which seemed like memories but I know I'd never been there before. After the stuff was recorded I'd get this stuff like a memory but I knew it wasn't a memory because it was someplace I knew I had never consciously been.

VADGE: Your music has always induced visions for me. I'll put on headphones, sit back and after awhile strange imagery starts to fill my psyche.

BOYD: That has always been the intent. Have I ever told you about this Gnostic soap opera that was on in the late sixties/early seventies?

VADGE: Gnostic soap opera!? No.

BOYD: There was this soap opera. It was on everyday' I loved this show. It was called Strange Paradise. In it the main character is both God and Satan, alternately. It takes place on this little island called the Garden of Evil. His maid is a woman who has lived hundreds of years and is a Priestess in a cult called The Cult of the Serpent. Their symbol is a Caduceus. It's a very strange soap opera. In it this character is the worlds richest man: Jean Paul Des Mondes. His wife dies so there's this constant theme in it of death and resurrection. He's frozen his wife's body in a cryonic capsule and he wants medical science to bring it back to life. But at the same time his ancestor comes to life and inhabits his body and tells him that he can bring the dead wife back to life through Magick. Jean Paul Des Mondes comes from the name Des Mondes which means "of the World." His ancestor is named Jaques Eloi Des Mondes which means 'Jaques, God of the World'. Which is like Lucifer, the Demiurge, LeRoi De Monde. And the symbolism is all actually in this show. It's not like I'm making this up or reading something into it. And about once a week they would say to Jean Paul -"You shouldn't interfere with the Will of God!" And Jean would say- "On this island; I am God!!" (Laughter) So this character was both the Devil and God.

VADGE: That is so amazing! You were so lucky back then. You had both Dark Shadows and Strange Paradise!!

BOYD: Yeah. And as much as I loved Dark Shadows; Strange Paradise was just so much more bizarre.

VADGE: So, let's talk about the Abraxas Foundation. That was an organization that you founded that released a lot of ideas into the world. A loose group of people came together and promoted ideas and let those ideas take on a life of their own.

BOYD: Yeah. We just wanted to create a new paradigm and release it and have it become an organic entity and take on a life of it's own. It's kind of what Gustave Lebon talked about. That's what we wanted to do. That's what we did and it worked beyond our wildest dreams.

VADGE: It's been very, very successful. Just certain terms like "Occult Fascism" which I know that I had never heard before you had used that term.

BOYD: Or like Social Darwinism. Nobody was talking about Social Darwinism back then. I knew Anton LaVey very well and even he had never used the term Social Darwinism before he started hanging out with me. The only person who I had heard to use the term Social Darwinism was Clarence Thomas when he was trying to get elected to the Supreme Court. They asked "what do you believe?" And he said "I'm a Social Darwinist." He's a high dominance guy and high dominance people are naturally fond of those types of ideas. People at the bottom of the ladder are afraid of those ideas. Like people who wear ribbons when some new tragedy happens. 'Oh! There's been a killing at Columbine High; let's all wear blue and silver ribbons!' Who benefits from that except ribbon makers! If you have stock in the ribbon industry it would have gone up ten times over the past five or ten years! I think it's kind of like whistling through the graveyard or something. Like wearing the good-guy hat- "Oh, look. I'm the friend of the oppressed minority." Or "Look how open minded I am."

VADGE: There's a great quote from Jean Cocteau that I'm thinking of putting on the next Chthonic Force album. It says''It is not up to us to obey the public, which does not know what it wants, but to compel the public to follow us."

BOYD: Well, in my estimation that's what politics used to be. You'd get some strong personality like Teddy Roosevelt and he would give people really clear-cut ideas and they would want to follow him because of the obvious rightness of these ideas. Where as today politicians look at what the public thinks and then alter their agenda to fit that as much as they can.

VADGE: Yeah. But of course then the politicians have all of their behind the scenes machinations where they work out their agenda anyway.

BOYD: Once they're in office any promises they made go down the toilet. They do what ever the hell they wanted to do to begin with. I totally believe that the world is run by people behind the scenes and big corporations. What happens in politics is just window dressing. It has to be window dressing. That's what the public desires. They have to believe that Democracy is different from Communism and that Communism is different from Fascism. They are really just variations of the same thing.