Boyd Rice Interview
from Degenerate
By Giselle Portales, August 2003.


I would like to thank Boyd Rice for this opportunity. Not only interesting, but very pleasurable as well. I apologize in advance for any misspellings of people's names, as I was not familiar with some of the people and or places Boyd spoke about or quoted.

-- G.P.



G) When did you begin producing music?

B) I think it was 1975. Actually at the time, I was studying photography and what I was doing was basically creating photographs of landscapes that did not exist. I had a one man show in San Diego showing my work and one gentleman, who was actually a friend of Dr. Seuss's, he and his wife could not figure out what the photos were about. The fact is that they were looking at something that didn't exist.

G) And is that what lead you to begin producing music?

B) Yeah. I had always been very disappointed by music. It was like every year people would be talking about some form of music and saying "this is going to be the next big thing". And I would check it out and it would be the same old stuff .

G) Do you still create other forms of art?

B) Yes. With anything I do, when the inspiration strikes me, that's when I do it.

G) When did you actually release your first record?

B) I think it was probably 1976.

G) And was there a large audience for it?

B) No. My initial record I made 86 copies of cause I thought "There aren't going to be 86 people in the world who are going to want to listen to this. And when I first went over to England in 1978, I sold a bunch of the copies and at that exact same time I met Daniel Miller, the president of MUTE records, who had just put out a single and it was just hugely successful and he was kind of saying "Well you know, I'm thinking of starting my own record label, and is it okay if I re-release your record"? And he did, and the next thing I knew he was signing Depeche Mode and people like that and it became the largest independent label in Europe.

G) Are you still in contact with Daniel Miller?

B) Yes, constantly. I'm still on that label however many years later.

G) Is there any message in particular that you are trying to convey in regards to your music?

B) I don't know. I think that the great work is to create the new man. In everything I have done there has been an element of that in the back of my mind.

G) What do you mean by that? Creating a new man?

B) Precisely what I am talking about. We're at this stage in human evolution where everything is going south and I really believe that a handful of individuals promoting a certain idea can plant the seeds for promoting the creation of a new man.

G) So, do you believe there's hope?

B) Uh, hope is a word I don't like to use, I mean, I have fathomless optimism. I delve through the experiences of my own life that no matter what a degraded state humanity is in, it doesn't necessarily affect your life. When you're young and idealistic you want to change the world, then you get a little more mature and you realize that changing the world is a futile process yet you can change the conditions within your own life and that's the start. Today that's what's most important to an individual right? It's like I don't care if humanity is on fire. It's like everything is great in my life and I'm a seed and things can grow from a seed.

G) Ok. But what if one of your goals or desires is to change the world and save humanity, yet all you're doing is taking care of yourself, how could you expect for that to actually come to pass?

B) Well, it like Arthur Di Gobineau said : That you can go into a society that's entirely destroyed and laying in rubble, and there's some massive (unintelligible) thrusting itself above the ruins. And that item is a repository, a vestige of all the nobility that was once in this destroyed culture. And I think there are a lot of people today, there are more and more people everyday who sort of represent that. They're living this in their own lives. And in some small ways they are a beacon to others. I have heard from hundreds of people who said "The values you portray and represent are things that have been a great solace to me, because, you know, they aren't to be found in the day to day world.

G) Since we're on that subject, let me ask you this: Has your misanthropy grown, remained the same or decreased in the last, let's say, ten years?

B) Well, to me it's like breathing. It's a thing I don't have to consciously articulate because I'm aware of it and I take for granted that it's a kind of precondition of life, that most people I am going to have interaction with are going to be disappointing, they're not going to deliver the goods. Therefore, my life has changed in that I have become more of a recluse. I have less friends, I have less interactions with people. So, misanthropy is a huge concern of mine, which is something that I'm so aware of that it's become incorporated into my life where it's something that I don't have to think about. I am a very happy person ok? I am not angry or bitter or malcontent. I just understand that most human beings are not going to be terribly interesting, therefore I have very little interaction with them.

G) So, then would you say that your level of misanthropy is pretty much the same as it was when you were 30 years old?

B) No. I think that I had a lot more anger in me when I was 30. At a certain point I just realized "What do I have to be angry about?" It's like I've lead a charmed life, done everything I've set out to do and things are still going along swimmingly. Who do I have to be angry about? Anger is sort of a barometer of a person's inability to deal with the things that are set in front of them. Like if you can't deal with things you get angry.

G) Where did you grow up?

B) Southern California.

G) Did you like those places?

B) Yeah, I loved those places.

G) What caused you to move to Colorado?

B) Well, I had moved to San Francisco initially and I lived there for about 10 years and it got totally dysgenic and degenerate and you know I think the final straw that made me say "You know, maybe I should move out of this town" was when I came out of my apartment one morning at like 4:30 am and there were two guys with knives stabbing each other on my doorstep. I had to walk between them to get to my car, and I had stopped to listen to my phone messages and I came out of my apartment building and they were literally standing in a pool of blood, they were yelling at each other and they were stabbing each other.

G) You didn't freak out or run away?

B) Well, I had a gun. (laughs) So I assumed they wouldn't fuck with me. I got in the car and drove away and the next morning when I was coming home, the manager of the building was squirting water trying to wash away this pool of blood that had caked there and he asked me "Did you see anything unusual outside the building last night"? And I said "No".

G) Why did you say no?

B) Because it wasn't unusual. It's like the streets outside my building became like the cover of Apocalypse Culture (FeralHouse.com) or something. Like people with sores on their faces dying of A.I.D.S., People bending over in the gutter vomiting. You know it's like two guys stabbing each other to death was kind of like par for the course.

G) And that was what pretty much made you want to leave?

B) Well, it was pretty much a slow incremental thing where like I felt like I was living in the midst of an apocalypse. And when that happened I kind of thought "It might not be very healthy to live in this building anymore Cause one of these days one of these guys with the knives is going to be stabbing me instead of some piece of street trash." If I lived somewhere else it might be much nicer and healthier.

G) And you've lived in Colorado for how long now?

B) For 13 years.

G) And you like it?

B) Yeah. I love it. It's great.

G) Ok. Back to the music. I wanted to ask you - How did you become acquainted with Michael Moynihan and/or Douglas P.?

B) Let's see. Moynihan actually sent me an obscure ABBA single from when he was living in Belgium. He found this thing that had a "B" side called Happy Hawaii. And we started corresponding and he moved back to his parent's house in Boston and I was sick of San Francisco and I was willing to move to Denver and he wanted to move some place away from Boston and we kind of decided "Hey, why don't we be room mates"? And we came here to Denver and lived together for about 5 or 6 years.

G) And did you live together that whole time?

B)Yeah. Initially. Then eventually I had a girlfriend who got pregnant and was going to move here to have the baby, and that's when he moved out.

G) Then he went to Oregon?

B) Yeah. I think he initially went to Portland and started working for Adam Parfrey of Feral House.

G) How did you meet Douglas P.?

B) I remember a lot of strange interactions with Doug. I went Australia once and he was supposed to pick me up at the airport and he wasn't there and I went to the phone booth to call his house and he was on the phone on the exact other side of the phone booth. I think the first time I met him was in Japan. We actually were supposed to play on the same bill with Nick Cave in London but when I went to London to do this I was deported from the country to Germany.

G) Why was that?

B) As absurd as it sounds, they thought I was going to move to England to pursue a career as a pop star.

G) And so they asked you to leave?

B) Yeah. Cause I didn't have a work permit and they called all these people, the National music press and all these places and whatever to see how legit I was and everybody wanted to give the best endorsement of me, so everybody said "Oh yeah, Boyd is this great musician, he's really popular, all these people like him, which was complete nonsense. (laughs). So these people said, you know we believe that you want to move to England and live here because you have a promising career as a pop star and I just laughed and said "No". Then I said "Do you seriously think that someone who is a citizen of The United States of America would want to come live in England"? It's like jumping on a sinking ship and rats are leaping off of this place, and they didn't like that at all. So it was like "Goodbye Mr. Rice, we're sending you to Germany".

G) And were you well received in Germany?

B) Yeah. I got in Germany and I had copies of NON pagan muzak and it was immediately listed in the top 10 of the alternative charts. Great records in Germany. But that should have been my first meeting with Doug. At any rate I eventually met him because everywhere I went in Europe I was mistaken for being him because we dressed alike. We wore black shirts and ties, and I'd show up at these hotels and they'd say "Oh, you're back again". And I'd say, I've never been here before in my life". And they were like, "no, no, you were just here last week". And this happened so much that I eventually felt that there was some type of weird vibe between me and Doug, that we should probably know one another.

G) Have you kept any contact with either Michael Moynihan or Douglas P.?

B) I just talked to Doug yesterday for about 3 hours. I keep in closer contact with him. Moynihan, I'll see him if we do a concert in New York or something he'll show up. He'll come back to the hotel room and drink until late into the night, but I have essentially lost contact with him.

G) Do you think you'll produce any more music in the future?

B) Yeah, it's a certainty. I'm working on something now that's sort of an overview of what I've been doing for the past 30 years, and it's all the most minimalist, most ambient things that I've done since 1975.

G) So it's a compilation?

B) Yeah, sort of a compilation, but every album that I have had I've had like one or two things on there that are just minimalism, understated and subtle. I think that when you see all of these things, one after another, I kind of realize that I've been doing this for ages.

G) Do you consider yourself a musician?

B) Not really. I can't play any musical instruments, I can't read any notes or anything.

G) So then, how would you answer if someone were to ask you "What do you do"? Like how some people can say, "oh, I'm a nurse, or I'm a teacher", what would you say?

B) I'd say that I'm a person that has a good relationship with ideas. That I have enough ideas that I can go into a studio with absolutely nothing and come up with a complete album because I have the approach that people, artists like Max Ernst can create something out of nothing. At the end of the day I think I'm something like an alchemist. I can take something and turn it into something else. That's my talent. I have no other talent at all.

G) There's something I've been wanting to ask you for a while. What was the deal with The sheep's head and Gerald Ford's wife?

B) Well, when I was a teenager, I lived in this grove and there was this store we'd go to and in the meat section they'd always be selling these lamb's heads and they had eyes and they had tongues and I would always look at these things and wonder "What on earth does anybody do with these things"? "Who eats a sheep's head"? So when I heard that Ford was coming down to open up a campaign center, I thought "Oh, I've got to go down there and do something". And I had no idea what to do, then I thought "Oh, I'll do something with one of these sheep heads". So I made one of those sandwich boards, the sandwich type sign you see people wear in the movies, and they'll say "The end is near" or whatever. I made something like that and I mounted this thing (sheep's head) on the front of it, and I went down to the campaign site and umm, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Something lead me to think that I should get this thing to Betty Ford. I was thrown into handcuffs and whisked away and questioned for hours and hours.

G) How old were you?

B) I don't know, I think I was 17, 18? That was actually mentioned on the nightly news by Walter Kronkite. It was the lead story of the entire day. That a young man who was thought to be an escaped mental patient tried to attack Betty Ford with a Skinned sheep's head.

G) On to more recent topics. In an interview with Bob Larson you mentioned that you had recently found out that you were a direct descendant of Jesus Christ. How has that influenced your life, if at all?

B) It's hard to say. It's certainly made me obsessed with that total period of history and I've been researching, I've been tracing this bloodline. The thing that I thought when I found out about this was that there are all these books like holy blood, holy grail that say all the bloodlines of Europe are in this line, you know, they all trace it from Christ forward, and I thought "Well if this blood line is significant, why is it significant". It's not just because it's Christ, cause Christ was obviously just a guy who was like Rasputin or Charles Manson, in that he knew how to manipulate archetypes. So it's not like you could say that this bloodline is important cause it comes from some guy who's supposed to be the son of God. So I began tracing the bloodline in the opposite direction. What I came up with is that it goes back to the earliest kings of Samaria which was the first high civilization on earth, and they were supposed to be somehow descended from the son of god. I've actually spent the last 2 years of my life writing a book about this. If all goes well it should be out in the spring of 2004.

G) Is this the book you are working on with Tracy Twyman?

B) Yes.

G) Could you briefly explain the meaning behind the Cross Of Lorraine?

B) Well, the Cross of Lorraine, originated as an ancient Sumerian symbol. It was assembled in their pictographic writing which just represented God and King and it later was a symbol said to be used on the shield of Loengred, and Loengred is a person who is associated with this region in between Germany and France. And it was German and then France changed the name, it was a last name, to Lorraine, and that's the symbol of the Lorraine section of France. This guy Gottfried Buillion, was the leader of the Crusades, he became the first leader of Jerusalem, was a direct descendant of Loengred. His daughter married into the Angelins (?) and one of the Angelins of France went to England and married into the royal family there and he was one of the first (inaudible) kings of England and one of my ancestors married a Thomas (inaudible) who was supposedly a bastard son of (inaudible).

G) You have teamed up with Tracy Twyman for Dagobert's Revenge. What is your general intention or goal in taking part in this publication?

B) Just a promotion of these ideas. Our research is in a pretty far field where the evidence has lead to stuff that we didn't expect was part of this and essentially we're just saying that it's very easy to completely reinterpret the entire history of the world. We feel that a lot of these secret societies, like The Priory of Zion is saying, is probably very true. We found that there's a lot of things in ancient history that really points to the fact that there was a high global civilization on earth dating back hundreds of thousands of years and that it was a global cataclysm in which most of the population was wiped out. And a handful of the people from the high global civilization that survived, they essentially jump started human civilization again. They were the first kings of Samaria, you know, a high civilization where none had been and they would have had to be part of a pre existing civilization knowing what they knew and creating what they created and as a consequence of being survivors of a high civilization they were perceived as being gods. So this goes back to this archetype that virtually every single civilization on the face of the earth where these people will say "gods arrived at the dawn of time and taught us every thing we knew".

G) Do you believe in an after life or God?

B) I believe in reincarnation because I have had very odd experiences with my son where he said things to me that can only be understood in the context of reincarnation.

G) How old is your son?

B) He's coming up on 8. He's forgotten all this stuff now. I think that children have memories of their past lives up to about the age of 3 or 4 and then they just go away cause I know I did. And I had totally forgotten until Wolfgang started saying strange things to me. He would say "When you were a child, I was a man. Now you're a man and I'm a child."

G) Just out of the blue he said that?

B) Well he was saying that because I was telling him how things used to be when I was a kid, how different things were now than when I was a kid, and he just said "Yeah, I know. Because when you were a child I was a man."

G) Oh my god. How Bizarre.

B) YEAHHH.

G) Did you ask him what he meant by that?

B) I said "What do you mean by that" and he just looked exasperated and said " When you were a child, I was a man, now you're a man and I'm a child. It just totally pulled the rug out from under me. So he said that and I was just thinking about it for days and days and days and all these memories started coming back from when I must have been like 2 or 3 years old. Stuff I hadn't thought about for ages. Another odd thing is that he's got this red mark on his nose and my grandfather drove a model T truck off of a cliff and the end of his nose was ripped off and they took some skin from another part of his body to fix it. Supposedly there is this idea that people who are reincarnated bear marks that mimic the wounds that they had in previous lives.

G) When did you and Tracy (Twyman) go to France?

B) That was probably a couple of years ago. That was after we had first met and we had kind of been talking on the phone and she still lived in New Jersey at the time. I essentially said that if we were serious about this, we would have to figure out a way to go to Rennes Le Chateau and just literally days later some T.V. produced called up wanting to do something on Rennes Le Chateau and wanted to fly us both to France.

G) You went there wanting to research the Holy Grail?

B) Yeah. There's a whole mystery associated with this church. This priest evidently found something that made him incredibly wealthy overnight. People have been trying to figure out what it is, what he found ever since, or find the location of this treasure, that sort of thing and it's somehow associated with king Dagobert who is the last king associated with bloodline of Christ.

G) Did you find what you were looking for?

B) I think so. Right after we came home I figured out that there's this code throughout the church where it's a cod that involves the number 22 and nobody's really come up with a satisfactory explanation of what it really means. When I was over there I thought that maybe it was just something not "occult" at all. Maybe it's something straight forward and logical like 22 might indicate two sets of two and there is this type of duality throughout the entire church and the grounds that surround it and the cemetery. So I was able to locate a bunch of two sets of two on a map of the place and I drew lines through them and after I was through I had about 6 or 7 lines that all intersected at precisely the same spot, so, I think whatever's there is at this spot. You can see traces of the Samarian stuff in Odinism. There was actually a god or a king in Caldea (?) named Bodin and then it later changed to Odin up north. I mean, you can trace the theologies from every single part of the world to this small little place that's the cradle of civilization, and you can show, you can demonstrate that the words are the same as titles of the early kings of Samaria are the titles of the biblical patriarchs, the title of the Nordic gods, the titles of the Greek gods. It's like everything comes back to this one prototype and it amazes me to think that a high school dropout like me can discern this stuff with the information that's been there for thousands of thousands of years and nobody's ever connected the dots.

G) Why do you think this information is so hidden?

B) I don't think it is hidden. I think it's all very obvious, but I think people with their disciplines, like people into Greek mythology think it's separate and unique and has nothing to do with any other mythologies. People who are into South America or Meso America think "Oh these are very unique civilizations. They have nothing to do with any of the other civilizations." Yet, people who are a bit more open minded and curious or has done enough LSD in the past to have some sort of pattern recognition will see these things.

G) Do you consider any certain groups or religious denominations or sects as personal enemies?

B) Personally? No. I think once you develop this point of view you're able to see that things on some level are interconnected. It's like, when I was younger I would have perceived Christians to be my naturally ordained enemy but by realizing Christianity is an occult creed, like every other creed and people don't perceive it as an occult creed because they have grown up with it and it's mainstream but every single thing that defines it is absolutely occult. You know, Wagner had this great saying where he said "I only understand Christianity because I am a Pagan." It's like that's my attitude as well because I look at Christianity and see this myth of the dieing and resurrected God and I know where that goes back to. That goes back to Osiris and it's an ongoing archetype. It was an ancient idea that was ancient even in the time of Christ and because he used so much all of this Pagan symbolism I think that's what made Christianity so popular because people understood it.

G) Another version of the same old story.

B) Yes.

G) Have you ever thought of perhaps writing a book about yourself?

B) Actually after one tour I came home spent about 6 months writing this book and after 6 months I looked at this book and thought "This all talking about the person that I used to be 15 or 20 years ago. I am not that person anymore. Do I really want to put out something that promotes the stuff I was interested in all that time ago and have people, for the next 10 or 15 years perceiving me as a caricature of myself "?

G) Because I remember the first time I saw you I was 15 and it was in an article in that magazine "Sassy" the interview with Bob Heick, and I was like "Who's this guy, Boyd Rice"? So, I read the interview and then I forgot about you till I was about 19 and I saw you featured in The Fifth Path and I was like, "Hey, I know this guy"! I remember that Bob Heick was a White Power skinhead, but what was the association between the two of you?

B) He was just like one of these weird characters on the scene in San Francisco and he had been kind of a figure head on the scene as long as anybody could remember. Literally everybody in San Francisco knew this guy so we started buddying around because we were both into Nordic European mythology and Pagan gods and Wagner. So, at any rate I gave him this Wolfsangle and he began wearing it around and he went on T.V. wearing it and eventually he said "Here, you can have an American front patch." So, I had been a security guard and had one of these gray shirts that were identical to the shirts his guy's wore, and I sewed it on and told him that I essentially had an American Front shirt and he said "oh that's super cool because these people are coming down to interview us for this teenage fashion magazine for girls, would you like to be in a teenage fashion magazine for girls? (laughs) And I said "Of course, you don't even have to ask me that question." Then he said "We need as many cool looking people as possible so put on a shirt and a tie amd show up in Union Square. There's going to be 65 guys coming from all over the place." I show up, and it's raining and the only person there was Bob. It was like me and Bob, I'm not even a member of the organization but we're the only people who have the wherewithal to go out walking in the rain to meet these people. But yeah, you wouldn't believe how many girls I met who were 15 going to catholic school or something and it's like all the girls in the catholic school thought that me and Bob were just great. Like "it doesn't matter what these guys believe, they're obviously really cool."

G) Yeah. That's exactly how it was for me. My dad would come into my room and say "Giselle, you understand that these people don't represent what America really stands for right?" And I would say "Yeah dad, but they're really cool." And he would repeat "Yes, but this is not what America stands for. This is sick, this is weird people shit." I was obsessed with Bob Heick and I even taped the Geraldo show where he got his nose broken.

B) (Laughs) That's so wild because when I heard he was going on it I said " Bob, what you've got to do when Geraldo gets in your face just stand up and punch him in the fucking nose as hard as you can, I guarantee you that your face will be on the five o'clock news all over the entire country that night.!" And it was like, I woke up that day with a phone call and I said "hello" and they said "Man, have you been watching the news?" "Geraldo got his nose broken!" So I feel like spiritually I put out the thought to have Geraldo's nose broken even if Bob didn't throw the chair.

G) Would you consider yourself a white supremacist?

B) I consider myself an elitist. I really don't have a lot of faith in most of the white race.

G) So, race isn't a factor as far as you're concerned?

B) On a certain level I think anyone who says that race doesn't matter at all is absolutely full of shit. I think that people who say that race is a fundamental thing, that they're equally full of shit. So I think that every group, every ethnicity, you can look at them and find a hierarchy within them. There are the 5 percent at the top of the hierarchy, who create all the ideas, and there are a lot of people in the middle who just follow the ideas and the people at the bottom go into the ideas. I think Oswald Mosley said that " The peaks of history are closer to one another than the valleys which separate them." Same goes for different groups of people. I think I have far more in common with a high dominance black person than I would with a room temperature I.Q. white person.

G) How do you perceive your fans?

B) I think the people who turn out to support me and Death in June and all of us are likr the best people on earth. They're literate, they're well read they're intelligent and they know all the points of reference. Like if you run into a "normal" person on the street and start up a conversation about the Knights Templar, it's like they have no idea what you're talking about, yet someone at our concerts they can hold up their conversation.

G) Do you have any tours planned?

B) Actually I just spoke to Doug (Douglas P.) for about three hours yesterday and he was saying that there was interest in us going to West Palm beach, Austin and some place in South Carolina And maybe something in Chicago. We had initially a tour for Sweden and Finland and Russia at the end of the year and I had to cancel it because I am working on this book and I didn't want anything to distract me from it. Now it's looking like these things might show up at the end of November and by then it should be done. That should literally be done in a few days.

G) Do you get along well with Tracy Twyman?

B) I don't get along well with anyone. (laughs) I get along amazingly well with Doug and I find that working with most other people that I can really do everything myself so there's another person who's bringing to the table what I'm bringing and it's usually more bothersome. It hasn't been easy.

G) How would you describe your personality?

B) You know, 5 years ago I would have said that I'm a sociopath and I probably still am a sociopath and a recluse. But, I fell that I'm very well adjusted, very civil to everybody. Everybody gets along great with me. I treat everybody amicably so I usually see people's best possible face. Even though these are people I might not want to invite into my house, if I run into them on the street or a store I'll open the door for them and treat them very friendly and as a consequence everybody treats me fairly.

G) Would you consider yourself more of an optimist than a pessimist?

B) Umm, I would say that I'm more of a cynic. I don't think I'm pessimistic. I don't think things are going to work out for the worst. I feel like whatever cards I'm dealt I can play them well. I feel that I can make the best of any situation.

G) What do you think of a book about you, Michael Moynihan and Doug? Do you think there would be an audience for it?

B) I think in terms of Doug there would be an audience for it. I just don't think that Moynihan is a person with many ideas of his own. Me and Doug were doing this stuff when Moynihan was still in kindergarten.

G) How old are you?

B) I am going to be 47.

G) And Doug is how old?

B) He's already 47.

G) Boyd Rice, where do you see yourself in 5 years?

B) I'm not sure. What I'm hoping to do is move more and more into writing and I just want to go to all these places that I've read about and see them in person. That's what I want to do. Go and see all these bizarre places.

G) That's what I want to do. Go to Machu Picchu, minus the love peace hippy shit. Like some people say you can go there and lay down and feel the energy of the universe through the ground.

B) Maybe you can because when we went Rennes Le Chateau there was something there that just energized us and I would stay up and go to sleep at midnight, I'd sleep thoroughly and wake up in about 3 hours and feel totally rested and I would just wait for the sun to rise to start all over again.

G) What do you idealize as the ideal government?

B) Well, I'm really probably a Plato's Republic man. I would like it to where your rights were based upon what you do. So, people who were really ambitious and efficient would have plenty of rights and people who were lazy would have less rights. I think that people's rights should be a reflection of what they bring.

G) What's the most interesting book you've read in the last year?

B) That's kind of difficult to say because sometimes I read a book a day. I literally have book shelves in every room of my house. I read a book called Plato and Hermes and that was very good.

G) If you were to go back to school, what would you study?

B) I would love to learn Latin. I have learned a little of it and I would really like to delve into that. It's very difficult to try to learn it on your own. I feel like I entered school when I dropped out of school. I feel that I learned more during the few years after I dropped out then the entire time I was in School.

G) Well Boyd, it really was a pleasure to speak with you, finally, after 15 years.

B) So now you're 30? That's the weird thing about doing things for such a long time, that there are people who are adults now who were into it when they were kids and some of these adults are like motion picture producers and things.

G) It's like when I said that the whole genre of people that are associated with you in one way or another, just seemed to disappear within a period of like 3 years. I accepted the fact that people get older and people change and move on, but inside I was like "where'd they go, and why didn't they take me?"

B) It's a damn shame. I'll get so much of a thrill when Doug's doing a show and I'll come out on stage and introduce one of the songs and it's like they picture us together, they picture us having some camaraderie, being friends, being part of this whole thing. There were so many people who used to be part of that whole thing. They have just become pussies or whatever and wanting to distance themselves from it. Like "No, I don't want to be seen in the shadow of these people, I want to be my own person ." Great, go be your own person. Hopefully someone will care. There are so many people that we loved and we supported and helped give them a place in the public conscious the they get to a certain point and they want to distance themselves for whatever reason and it's so stupid. What people are interested in is this shared thing that we're all a part of. Then you want to go off on your own and say, "I'm my own person" it diminishes the thing somehow. It's sad. People are weird.

G) Do you ever feel like you think too much?

B) I think I thought too much when I was younger. I think you once you grow older you enter a "don't think" phase. I feel like your instincts will tell you everything you need to know.